Curse

Faer · Aug 21, 2007, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

threating him with a ban

Hi,

I'm not an ArenaNet employee. Are you?

Regards,
Aguywhodoesn'tcareaboutrandombanthreatsanymorethan thenextguy.

Don't threaten to ban people. Politely tell them that you have (or will soon) reported their actions to the people who do have that authority.

Simath · Aug 21, 2007, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faer

Hi,

I'm not an ArenaNet employee. Are you?

Regards,
Aguywhodoesn'tcareaboutrandombanthreatsanymorethan thenextguy.

Don't threaten to ban people. Politely tell them that you have (or will soon) reported their actions to the people who do have that authority.

I agree with Faer. No one is going to take lightly to being threatened with a ban. Even if they truly are at fault for scamming or some other offense. Considering you are not an Anet employee and it can be seen as an empty threat it probably won't stop them from scamming in the future.

Legendary Shiz · Aug 21, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

ahhh okay so copying a movie then selling it as the real thing isnt a crime? my my what a lovely world you live it.

Stupid enough to fall for it? I'm not sure if you're just being a jerk but theres still players that are new to this game and do not own the first game. Enslavement stones look just like DOA gems except there red. Not knowing its a collector drop from the first game? * how would they know? not everyone goes to wiki and such... not everyone is as "bright" as you.

I guess its a crappy job trying to make the game enjoyable without having everyone and their inbreed brothers trying to screw you over.

So your logic is, that somebody that's new to the game is not only going to have the money to blow on a titan gem but they'll actually KNOW what a titan gem is? If that's the case, we have two very different definitions of 'new'.

Legendary Shiz · Aug 21, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacitus

if someone passes tries to sell an item and falsely describes its purpose/attributes/ usefulness or whatever it should be banning offense. Yeah the person being scammed may be naive or unaware but that doesn't make it right.

Falsely advertising products in real life is an offense and has consequences and doing the same in the game should have in game consequences as well.

If this is a scam or not depends on how the alleged scammer advertised his or her products and what they said to the people buying them. If they were passing them on as some sort of DoA stuff when they knew they from sorrows furnace then some sort of action from anet would be perfectly right.

Just because someone appears to be ignorant or naive doesn't give you the right to scam them.

But this ISN'T real life. If you can't see in the trade menu that your little gem doesn't say "Titan Gem" then why would you buy it? It's obviously not what you're looking for. That IMO, would fall under the 'stupid' category.

HawkofStorms · Aug 21, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

^ Shiz sums up my thoughts nicely. This does fall in the "carefully read what you buy" thing. No worse then the people who try to sell mursatt tokens or frozen ecto as ecto. "You can Thaw them..." "Sure... buddy..." *banned*

Wolf2581 · Aug 21, 2007, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacitus

Just because someone appears to be ignorant or naive doesn't give you the right to scam them.

If ignorance and stupidity were illegal, the world would be a nice, quiet place.

I despise liars, cheats, and thieves, but here it is the victim's fault. If a player is not wise enough to check with an objective source first, then he should not be trading with strangers in the first place. Unfortunately, there is no way that this will become a bannable offense.

longhornrob · Aug 21, 2007, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Scamming for 5k should never be a permanent ban offense. 5k doesn't ruin the other player's account, it just inconveniences him. For that, the scammer should only be inconvenienced with a temp ban and not permanently banned. You guys calling for a perma ban for such a small offense have an unworldly grasp on general laws of justice.

kooomar · Aug 21, 2007, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Meh, I dont see the disagreements here. OBVIOUSLY the buyer wouldn't be too smart to purchase the stones, yet i think the main argument is that it is wrong. Amount, cost, etc doesn't matter, but lieing about the product that you're selling is a bannable offense. This would be just as valid if the screenshot said "selling bleached carapace, only drops in UW, 2k" Its a lie, case in point.

There's no need to compare the game to the real world, though many mechanics are the same, or to put down the people that do compare them. This thread was started to try to help people, thats it, no reason to be bashing on others in here. Its just another reminder that some people out there are trying to make a difference, and not everyone is coldhearted and two-faced. From my experiences in life, take all the help you can get.

Gaile Gray · Aug 21, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Hey, all,

I added this to the weekly Community Summary we send the full Guild Wars team. I think it's important that we note instances where someone could be taken advantage of by a less scrupulous individual, and thanks a lot for pointing this out.

Arkantos · Aug 21, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Lets see some differences between the two.

DoA gems are called "xx gemstone".
Enslavement stone doesn't have gem in it.
DoA gems are gold.
Enslavement stones are white.
DoA gems cannot be sold to merchant.
Enslavement stones can.

I honestly would like to know who is stupid enough to fall for this "scam".

VitisVinifera · Aug 21, 2007, 07:44 AM // 07:44

^^^ agreed. If there ever was a scam that didn't need to be addressed, it's this one.

People in the market for DoA gemstones know the difference. People who don't know the difference aren't in the market for gemstones.

This isn't far off from the next scam: selling bolts of cloth as rare minipets.

arcanemacabre · Aug 21, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

This isn't far off from the next scam: selling bolts of cloth as rare minipets.

Hey! That's no fair! I got scammed that way. Dude said it was a mini "Gwen's cape", and that all I had to do was double-click it and it became a mini Gwen!

Yeah, have to agree, this is probably the worst idea for a scam I have ever seen. If anyone falls for this, I pity them for more reasons than just being scammed...

Zehnchu · Aug 21, 2007, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Lets see some differences between the two.
I honestly would like to know who is stupid enough to fall for this "scam".

New people who aren't guru's on the game....and Enslavement stones other then color look the same. And some time's people don't mouse over the item.

Arkantos · Aug 21, 2007, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

New people who aren't guru's on the game....and Enslavement stones other then color look the same. And some time's people don't mouse over the item.

Why would a new player be buying DoA gems?

Zehnchu · Aug 21, 2007, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Why would a new player be buying DoA gems?

Better question is what there are new players?

WinterSnowblind · Aug 21, 2007, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

Personally if somebody is stupid enough to fall for it they deserve to be scammed.

A lot of you people really want to throw bans out like its no big deal. Banning is a serious offense, and taking money from stupid people shouldn't be ban worthy. This isn't a scam IMO.

I have a friend that waaaaaaaaaaay long ago was talking to somebody that was new to the game and the guy was trading my friend his platinum for my friends gold pieces because he thought gold was worth more. Is that a scam? Or is that just somebody taking an opportunity on somebody that's either stupid or doesn't know better. I suppose you people want him banned for that scam too, huh.

I think there's a big difference there. I do agree, at that point in the game, people should know what they're doing. If you're going to buy an item from someone you should be checking what it is.

However, when you're a new player, and don't exactly know what you're doing, it's a completely different story. I remember buying a customised weapon from someone when I first started the game, because I had no idea what it meant. Yes, it warns you about things like that now, but there are still many ways to trick new players. Even if you don't consider that a scam, it's still wrong.

tmakinen · Aug 21, 2007, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Somebody seems to be confused about the difference between ignorance and stupidity

Remember that there are new players, very casual players and very young players. Providing incorrect information in order to gain a financial advantage is the essence of a scam.

From the ethical point of view, by my own observations there seem to be more supporters of the adage "A fool and his money are soon parted" on the 'new' continent than the 'old' one. That is certainly one possible option to take but not necessarily a very nice one. A society is only as nice as the individuals that it is comprised of. Do unto others and all that stuff. My main argument against the scam-happy philosophy is, however, that it is completely analogous with the following proposition: "People who are too weak to defend themselves are just begging to get beaten. If I kick seven kinds of crap out of you, it's really your fault since you couldn't prevent it." And yes, there are supporters for this one, too. People are amazingly capable of rationalizing things to themselves just to be able to be a jerk

Retribution X · Aug 21, 2007, 09:41 AM // 09:41

It really doesn't matter who can fall for the scam, it's the fact some idiot is ATTEMPTING to scam, which happens to be breaking Anets Code of Conduct, which I'm pretty sure results in an account mark or ban...

The question isn't about the intelligence of anyone who gets scammed, that's like saying, real life scam artists only can go to jail AFTER the scam someone. The point is to get them BEFORE they scam somebody...

And yes, you would have to be completly retarded to get scammed this way, but that's beside the point. most scammers rely on stupidity, or ignorance.

arcanemacabre · Aug 21, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

tmakinen, I think you are applying a coverall philosophy where it doesn't necessarily need to be applied. Yes, it's wrong to scam, and yes, it's wrong to lie. I absolutely loathe scams and scammers, and this is no different. However, there is a point where you must draw the line between, as you say "ignorance and stupidity."

Though one can argue that persistent ignorance is stupidity. This is one such instance where that applies. Let's look at this from the point of view of the individual being scammed, seriously put yourself in their shoes:

You are brand new to the game, and you just made your first 5k. You only own Nightfall, and you know squat about Factions or Prophecies. You decide "Hey, I'm going to see what I can buy with this 5k." Knowing very little about GW, and absolutely nothing about all the 'fabulous riches' out there, someone comes up to you and opens trade to show this Enslavement Stone. You're thinking, "ok? what the heck is this?"

The person whispers to you, almost as an answer, "Hey, this is one of the super-rare DoA gems. It was recently added in a patch and I got one of the first. I'll sell it to you for only 5k!"

OK, so now you have lots of questions going on in your head. What the heck is a DoA gem? For that matter, what the heck is DoA? Why would I want to buy something that for all I know does nothing? All my money, for that matter.

Now, would you:
a) Buy it straight away - no idea what it is, but hot damn that's a sexy-looking icon, gotta buy it!
b) ask some follow-up questions - sure, the guy sounds trustworthy
c) say hold on and do some research on that thar internets your computer is connectedz to
d) ignore him and move along, maybe look it up later

If you chose (a), then I think you have definitely crossed that line from ignorant to stupidity. If you chose (b), stupid if you believe him, ignorant if you simply consider what was said but cautious to act, smart if you screenshot it, find the truth, and report the lying scum. If you chose (c), I'd say we have a winner. A simple google search for the terms "Guild Wars DoA gem" and "Guild Wars enslavement stone" brings up all sorts of information from guru to a multitude of other forums on DoA and the enslavement stone and how they are not related, at all. (d) is also good, and probably what I'd do.

It takes someone of special intelligence to do (a) and the first part of (b). It takes little effort to do (c), and no effort to do (d), and both are the way to go.

Look, I've seen some scams that are pretty dumb, but this one really takes the cake. This requires not just an ignorant individual, but an idiot. Like I said before, I pity this individual for more than just being scammed. The only other type of person that might fall for this is a very, very greedy individual. Someone who automatically thinks it's some kind of DoA gem they've never seen before, and thus must be extremely rare, and they are surely to turn a quick, massive profit. This type of individual I don't pity at all. Their greed must be so blinding to cover their common sense, or they, too are an idiot.

McMullen · Aug 21, 2007, 10:29 AM // 10:29

There's also the Stone of the Elements from an early factions quest that has the same icon as a Stygian Gemstone.

If in doubt, hit F10 ingame and search for the item.